Using Linux Software Toolchain

WinPC is a CNC controller.

A CNC controller needs some method of generating signals. It cannot just be software. The software crunches the numbers and then decides "what signals that need to be sent to the motors". The controller then has to send these signals to the motors reliably.

In the past - this has been done using the LPT output on the PC - so the PC motherboard (PCI LPT card) has been generating the signals. This is why the LPT port system is common in CNC. However - its not reliable and has issues that are beyond the scope of this thread.

Now - most of the communications happens on USB/Ethernet between controller hardware and controller software - and the controller hardware generates the signals.

The full version of WinPC USB is a piece of control software (requires Gcode to run) and has a piece of hardware associated - the USB module will create the signals for the machine. STEPCRAFT have a specifically designed piece of hardware to allow winPC to run the machine.

So

- WinPC starter and hardware - allows basic operations as Maglo2 has said. BAsic 2D milling with manual input required for different depths etc.

- WinPC full version and hardware - allows full Gcode control using WinPC controller.

BOTH of these configurations required the WinPC software AND hardware.

- Mach3 can be run using the LPT card. This simply allows any LPT input connector to connect to the SC. The UC100 is a USB controller that allows Mach3 to control he STEPCRAFT. Mach3 is the machine controller. It sends signals down the USB cable to the UC100 and the UC100 sends the signals to the machine.

- UCCNC is a new peice of software that has been designed by the guys at CNC drive who make the UC100 USB controller. So it can be used instead of Mach3.

Whats very important not to miss here is that the controller software (WinPC/Mach3/UCCNC and other) carry out a VERY important role that goes un-noticed. They convert the Gcode which defines the "optimal path" into actual real signals that allow the machine to follow this path.

So for example - moving around a corner - in theory for a perfect corner one axis must come to complete stop before the second axis moves. But in real life this would generate jerky movement and it would slow down the tool path. So the control software have values in their alrogithms that allow you to reduce the "corner error" for example - so the machine can "round the corner slightly" and maintain smooth movement at the expense of some accuracy. UCCNC allows you to tweak all these parameters. For most applications it can be ignored.

But the point is - if you start to use an Arduino or self made controller - the software to convert the Gcode to motion is complex to do right. This is why its better to use Windows with the USB protocal and the machine controllers that we do. Its not necessarily the best solution.

But currently - the best way to control a CNC outer is on windows with UCCNC/WinPC. This may change.

One remark for the records: As per my understanding the USB board has been developed by and still is property of Mr. Lewetz. It's only sold by Stepcaft and it is cheap to increase sales of the full version of WinPC NC.

Hey julius,

well the PCB inside the SC is not only a driver board. But it is not a real CNC controller board either.
Technical english terms can sometimes be a bitch 😛

It is more a like a "diver controller". So it handles the incoming G-Code and converts it to step and direction signals (very simple explanation).

But to come back to your original question:

yes, you can use LinuxCNC, you just need the parallel port version of the SC. The good thing about the parallel port version is, that you can "sidegrade" it into a USB version (which only works with WinPC-NC as the USB version is in some way dongled / optimized by the software developer!).

Plus a dxf to G-Code converter. There are a lot out there and then you should be ready to go.
Just start slow and gain experience.

Maybe WinPC could be used via WINE?

Hey julius,

well the PCB inside the SC is not only a driver board. But it is not a real CNC controller board either.
Technical English terms can sometimes be a bitch 😛

It is more a like a "diver controller". So it handles the incoming G-Code and converts it to step and direction signals (very simple explanation).

can you define what is a "real CNC controller"? So we are all talking about the same thing?

the PCB in the SC has the stepper drives and the tracks for the power supply and signal connections. The IDC header has the 25pin connection scheme to connect the controller output to the SC. this is what the WinPC board plugs into.

WinPC software and the USB board that goes into the machine are the two parts that make up the "machine controller". Depending on what your definition is.

In the same way that Mach3/UCCNC and the UC100 are the machine controller for the alternative configuration

yes, you can use LinuxCNC, you just need the parallel port version of the SC. The good thing about the parallel port version is, that you can "sidegrade" it into a USB version (which only works with WinPC-NC as the USB version is in some way dongled / optimized by the software developer!).

please explain what you mean by this?

Plus a dxf to G-Code converter. There are a lot out there and then you should be ready to go.
Just start slow and gain experience.

This is the CAM package. IMO it is much more than a converter. There are many many ways a CAM package can output Gcode. A better term perhaps would a "toolpath generator".

Hi Rory

"can you define what is a "real CNC controller"? So we are all talking about the same thing?"

Depends. I have developed CNC-systems for industrial and medical applications in the past. So I might have a different view on this topic.

A "real" controller is also capable of handling different parameters of attached motors (i.e. differnet current settings, decay modes...)
A "real" controller is also capable of handling different interfaces.

So I'd say that the SC controller is a simple controller (parallel Port version). Can't say much about the USB Version. But as this version is bundled with the software I guess it has more "intelligience" built in.
E.g. is has to handle real time events, which are handled by the PC if you use LinuxCNC.

"This is the CAM package. IMO it is much more than a converter. There are many many ways a CAM package can output Gcode. A better term perhaps would a "toolpath generator". "

Yes, you are right. I try to keep it simple as Jubin seems to struggle with all the tech bla bla.
Which is by the way something I still hate about the Linux community...

Well... a lot of tech was raised up here! 🙂

Foremost I have to say one stupid thing: "Win PC" is absolutely misleading and confusing as name, it is a no-sense name for a product in my opinion. But this is just my point of view, just for the records.

I appreciate the long description made by Rory, now I understand that for his point ov view the "CNC Controller" indicates a pair: controller board + controller software.

CNC Controller = Controller Board + Controller Software = e.g. = Win PC USB module + Win PC Software

One cannot exists without the other and viceversa.
I could embrace this vision, no problem. Even if my industrial background (electronic High School) forces me to think at a controller like an evolute/intelligent autonomous piece of hardware.

Now I'm confused about the Win PC Starter, MagIO2 says that the starter version cannot handle g-code at all. One has to use the Stepcraft like a plotter just for engraving (by the way, that is absolutely not clear by browsing the website).
In the Rory's vision this absolutely correct: you don't have a CNC controller (couple hardware + software) so you cannot pretend to have a milling machine. I'm ok with this, no problem.

But after I discover (thanks Aldronaig) that I could do some milling by using just the software part of a controller (i.e. the LinuxCNC).

So, in one case I have no controller hardware (Win PC starter solution), in the second it magically appears (LinuxCNC solution). The device (the Stepcraft machine) is the same in both cases.

I'm a little bit confused... :blink:
I appreciate that with the "USB version" (even if I find this denomination quite misleading) I get a full packet for 2.5D milling (with an optimized control hardware for best results), at the same time seems that one cannot do 2.5D milling without buying that version. Which seems not true.

@Aldronaig: Honestly I have no idea if WinPC (starter or full) can run with Wine or not. Furthermore I don't know if performances are a fundamental requirements to use it.

Hey everyone,

yepp and there might be bit of misleading factors due to the definitions in english and german language.

I agree with julius on the autonomous part. Normally a controller can be fed with some sort of instructions and does the rest. This is true for the parallel port version. But I don't know if the SC controller board is capable of driving e.g. a modified SC with different motors which e.g. a "regular" controller can (I've used a standard off the shelf controller with my SC 300 and it worked fine after some tinkering).

So in conclusion: parallel port & Linux CNC and you can use the SC as a milling machine (manual control via keyboard, joypad or manual GCode input)

SC parallel & LinuxCNC & CAM (e.g. dxf2gcode) and you can use the SC as a "real" milling machine which uses your CAD drawing and mills the part as drawn (2.5D and 3D, maybe also 4D but that would be a different topic).

WinPC is a really good software/hardware bundle for ppl with no knowledge and no time to digg deeper into all that CNC theory. And a cheap one too! If you use Windows o.c.

@julius I don't know either. I assume that it might be possible because alot of the real time events are taken care off by the WinPC hardware. Some ppl. have used WinPC-NC via WINE but with a different CNC machine.
But don't quote me on this! I really don't know.

Boy, this thread really starts getting confusing ...

Consens so far:
The big PCB in the stepcraft is a driver. It's only purpose is to drive the steppers according to the control signals it receives on an interface. Things like motor settings are fixed and can not be controlled at all - well at least not without hacking.

Here is the point:
something has to generate these control signals. And whatever generates those signals is from my point of view the controller. In the combination USB board/WinPC NC the controller is given in hardware (and the software running on the uC of the board). The software running on the PC is only a GUI for "manual" movement, displaying position and for sending the g-code or plt file to the board. The whole controlling-part is done on the USB board.
The same is true for the Arduino/EstlCAM combi.

A real autonomous controller would need a user interface and a way to read the g-code-files. Big CNC machines have their own monitor and a disk-drive or SD card slot to feed it with the files. But real CNC machines also might include the CAM part.

This kind of controllers would increase the cost dramatically.

In Mach3/LinuxCNC and parallel port combi the controller part is included in Mach3/LinuxCNC.

Hi MaglO2,

to keep it simple and stupid: yes. :cheer:

Boy, this thread really starts getting confusing .../quote]
Thanks MagiO2 now it's all perfectly clear.

I hope that in future Stepcraft will post/publish a simple block diagram to explain what we said to untalented CNC-rookies like me. I think that an image is better than one thousands words.

tschussss!

SC300 + Spindle HF500 + Portalerhöhung + LinuxCNC + gsimple

 

I'll work on this for you guys when I get a chance.

@Aldronaigh

about LinuxCNC control software: I heard that you need a very good graphic card for your PC in order to use it. It is true?

Hi julius,

that is not quite right. It also works with onboard video IF you get some things right (BIOS/EFI setup etc.).

I use a HP 7800 SFF and it works perfect and I event haven't tinkered a lot. (also you might get them cheap as they are coming of lease these days!)

The problem is with all the real time events and how they get interrupted with interrupts (lol) via e.g. onbaord video, onboard audio etc.

The worst thing for LinuxCNC are notebooks (not recommended at all).

But on the LinuxCNC homepage you will find a list with tested hardware. The more you turn off, the better. So the simplest PC is the best, generally speaking.

What I have figured out so far: a Pentium II from a brand name manufacturer e.g. ASUS would be good one.

But there is a test program in the download area which you can use to test different PCs before you buy them.