Frage Stepcraft is an "unbaked product" and i hate it

Hahahahahahaha! Holy shit, look at Rory! The last time I ran that fast I had my pants on fire

A clockwork orange machine and I...... love it.

I am reading this thread and find it surprising how many problems you guys encountered building this machine.
Maybe I am one of the lucky ones to have bought one from the first batch (Oct 2014).

Oh I am not a (fine) mechanic engineer or technician, just a hobbyist with 2 right hands. So no rocket science here.



So my S420 series 1 arrived with the Proxxon and dust collector 2 days after ordering by Stepcraft in Germany.
Then the next day I started to assemble this machine (pic 1 is taken at 09:20) about 7 hours later, yes really (last pic is taken at 16:35) it was ready for its first test run.









When that checked out to be working fine I rechecked all screws, belt tension, moving parts, put some oil/grease on the designated parts and let it do its first job.
I can say that since that day I check every 10 working hours the tightness of the screws and oil/re-grease where necessary and my orange clockwork is still running until today, hopefully also tomorrow:)

So we hear a lot of what can go wrong, but there are also success stories, just for keeping up hope for fine working machine.

the only thing I dislike about the stepcraft is not having twin Y-axis motors.

I hate belts with all my heart.

Miller, you are living proof that miracles do happen! Now seriously, who did you bribe
Valencia, are you nuts? With the luck I have I'd be receiving coupled motors driving in opposite directions

MMorao schrieb: Certainly not a plug and play product, more like "plug and swear at it for several months".

That's the point.
Now I've invested so much time to make it working that would be a no-sense to sell it and buy something different. But when I bought it I was not aware of such troubles/difficulties. That's no honest from the "consumer" point-of-view.

Hi!
My opinion about Stepcraft 840/2 after I owned it for 2 months:
For 2D cutting it is o.k.
But if you hope to make some quality 3D stuff do not buy it. You will be absolutely disappointed. Unstable and unpredicted.
I would not advice to buy it to my friend. Actually I want my money back. If somebody wishes to buy it cheap, mail to me: Diese E-Mail-Adresse ist vor Spambots geschützt! Zur Anzeige muss JavaScript eingeschaltet sein!
Good luck.

How much do you think a Unstable and unpredictable stepcraft machine is worth given you would not advise your friends to buy it? So unless ive got mug written across the top of my head i'll give you £100 for it.

Alexxfx schrieb: But if you hope to make some quality 3D stuff do not buy it. You will be absolutely disappointed. Unstable and unpredicted.

I absolutely intend to defy all logic and reason and make "quality 3D stuff" with mine: a guitar neck. Rory thinks it not possible, Alexxfx thinks it not possible. I think it is possible. Let's see in a few months.

jonalm schrieb: How much do you think a Unstable and unpredictable stepcraft machine is worth given you would not advise your friends to buy it? So unless ive got mug written across the top of my head i'll give you £100 for it.

An unstable and unpredictable Stepraft is worth the same as a brand new Stepcraft. Its an inherent quality of this machine. And yes - about 100 Pounds worth of aluminium.

I disagree - I got the 2/840 (same machine but just bigger), followed the instructions to the last dot and my Stepcraft almost immediately went to the perfect working state : the only bit I was confused was fitting the milling table - Stepcraft recommended to tighten the structural screws at the corners first and therefore my table did not fit at all. After releasing them and putting the table in I re-tightened, and that was it.
And I also must say that 3D work on my machine is as good as 2D - but you have to use sharp milling bits and select the right speeds for feeding.
So I would not say this is half-baked product, it is very well designed, but using it and maintaining requires some knowledge and experience - as with any other CNC machine.

nd595 schrieb: I disagree - I got the 2/840 (same machine but just bigger), followed the instructions to the last dot and my Stepcraft almost immediately went to the perfect working state...
So I would not say this is half-baked product, it is very well designed, but using it and maintaining requires some knowledge and experience - as with any other CNC machine.

Fair enough, but just because your machine worked "out of the box", doesn't mean that it's well designed... For every person who has been fortunate enough to get a perfectly working Stepcraft machine, there are probably five others who have had significant problems.

What experience have you had of other self-assembly CNC packages that qualifies you to make comparative statements? Also, it's illogical to claim that using it requires knowledge and experience "as with any other machine" when Stepcraft's target audience is the inexperienced amateur/hobby market! Like many other customers, I had zero knowledge or machining experience and I've got it working o.k. The biggest mistake I have made is to run cutters the wrong way round. The second biggest mistake is to assume that a ball nose end mill will be o.k. for roughing and finishing. Other than that, no broken bits, only faulty Stepcraft parts like the HF500 spindle.

Mine works brilliantly now but I can't forgive Stepcraft the hassle and issues they cause for customers and vendors. Rory Stoney must have the patience of a saint.

Doug

Nd-595 That is good to hear. Unfortunately there are a lot of us that didnt make it work.

I, like Doug and others choose this machine for different reasons but the biggest reason was that we didnt know CNC. We learned along the way. Now, thanks to struggling with this Stepcraft monstrosity I learned:

1) I'll never go for a machine with a belt. Only ballscrews!
2) Every CNC machine needs adjustments and maintenance. This is also the reason why buying assembled Stepcraft wont get you off the hook.
3) more power - the better

Taking all these in consideration I regret buying Stepcraft. It's outdated and wiggly.

I'm just wondering why Stepcraft have 2 million branches all over the world and spend all day in conventions but doesnt address any issue in this machine. Hec, i had to write Stepcraft USA to get parts from Stepcraft Germany just for the latter to reply. Its all one big mess over there.

Doug schrieb:

Alexxfx schrieb: But if you hope to make some quality 3D stuff do not buy it. You will be absolutely disappointed. Unstable and unpredicted.

I absolutely intend to defy all logic and reason and make "quality 3D stuff" with mine: a guitar neck. Rory thinks it not possible, Alexxfx thinks it not possible. I think it is possible. Let's see in a few months.

May I join the party? Doug, what's the progress in this particular task? A guitar neck? I'm game if you care to send me the files! Right now I'm doing every damned thing I want in 3d with the 4th axis working in both rotational and indexed modes But don't ask how much I underwent to reach here!

Do you know what really annoys me? Here we are voicing serious concerns about the off-the-shelf product and we don't hear a single word from Stepcraft themselves. This is a self-help forum, we have no support nor encouragement nor feedback, nothing at all from Stepcraft!! So what the hell is going on? Is this another marvelous marketing idea? Buy our product and give up on support?

MMorao wrote:

Do you know what really annoys me? Here we are voicing serious concerns about the off-the-shelf product and we don't hear a single word from Stepcraft themselves. This is a self-help forum, we have no support nor encouragement nor feedback, nothing at all from Stepcraft!! So what the hell is going on? Is this another marvelous marketing idea? Buy our product and give up on support?

Amen to that!!

Peter

In the German part of the forum we've been through this kind of discussions years ago.

Everybody has the freedom of choice. Stepcraft made the choice to add a USER forum to their homepage. And it's their choice not to have a closer look at what is going on here, because it would require an extra employee to do so. This would increase cost and all of us would have to pay the price. If you read the manuals of their products, you can clearly see, that their preferred way for support are emails and phonecalls.

So, now it's your choice ... email, call or move on to another manufacturer who offers support via forum. I can accept the decision made by SC.

Very helpful when I decide to buy a new machine. We have seen some quite loaded posts over here, and the maker attitude is "We Don't Give a Damn". Fantastic!

It reminds me of Henry Ford's famous reply when asked about colours available for his early models: "The customer is free to choose what colour he wants his car to be, provided it's black." This might be alright with Henry ford, but the trouble with this approach is that it was good 100 years ago. It doesn't work like that any longer.

There are more brands in the market. If I knew what I was getting I'd have done better research and bought something else. Now it's just a matter of time.

MagIO2 schrieb: This would increase cost and all of us would have to pay the price.

Just a small addendum. A price increase would not be unwelcome if it allowed better customer support and satisfaction AND better quality control. In the balance it might come out as a saving considering the months it too me to get the first decent part out.

MagIO2 schrieb: ...their preferred way for support are emails and phonecalls.

Oh, thank you very much, I never had that problem with vendor StoneyCNC, quite the opposite. Always upbeat, timely and very competent support all along the rough road to get this thing working. I don't know other vendors but I believe they share the same customer focused attitude. As a matter of fact Stepcaraft owe this vendor a big thank you for keeping at the very least this disgruntled customer from selling the thing for scrap. If you have any doubts I have the whole story described on my posting history.

Bless Stepcraft for having dedicated customers such as you. Why I don't know, for their public satisfaction concerns are not quite visible.

Seriously, who would buy a TV or a washing machine or a car in these circumstances?

Nicely put MMorao. I was going to reply in a similar vein but decided that I couldn't be bothered.

The German section of the Stepcraft forum is evidently quite mature and they have formed a strong self-help community. I prefer to remain upbeat that there are a number of helpful, eloquent English speaking users on here now and we are beginning to do the same.

A user on the Red Special Builders Association forum had seen my successful cut videos on wood, acrylic and aluminium and was thinking of buying a Stepcraft. I issued a strong warning to him to do his research carefully and join this forum first.

Doug

Agreed - succinctly put MMorao.

Apparently there is a book available - "CNC-Fräsen für Maker und Modelbauer" aimed at the Stepcraft builder and AVAILABLE FROM STEPCRAFT!!!!!. It's in Deutsch unfortunately - get it translated Stepcraft, it might just help dispel the "unbaked product" label.

Personally I was fortunate in that I had some mechanical commonsense inherited from my father - this at least allowed me to anticipate and address potential problems whilst still in the early build stage.

I feel very sorry for those not so fortunate, as they try to follow the standard "Easybuild" manual from Stepcraft. Another document is needed to fill out details where precise assembly and adjustment is called for to ensure accuracy in the final product.

The worst advice IMHO is to wire the machine as one proceeds - DON'T!!! Do a complete mechanical assembly and initial "tune" first - it will pay dividends all the way down the line.

Peter

MMorao schrieb: Very helpful when I decide to buy a new machine. We have seen some quite loaded posts over here, and the maker attitude is "We Don't Give a Damn". Fantastic! ...

I really understand that you are upset when you had so much problems. BUT while being upset, to me it looks like you play an unfair game of blaming stepcraft.
The maker attitude would be (because they don't say much here in the forum at all): Help each other in the forum and if problems persist, please write a mail or give us a call (that's what the manuals ask you to do in case of problems). What's the problem accepting that?
Unfortunately the feedback in a forum is likely to be biased, as you'll read more about problems then about success stories. Nevertheless, there are 10000 members and a lot of them accept, that it is a lack of their own mechanical experiences, which lead to the problems they had. Some do report that everything worked fine from the beginning and some prefere to stay upset and expect that their money bought them 24/7 individual service.

But we also heard stories here of excellent support from SC where parts obviously being broken by the customer (who did not know better) got replaced.
Another guy reported that he could fix his machine while talking to an SC enfgineer on the phone.

You say that you'd be willing to pay a higher price, so why didn't you buy the pre-assembled machine?
Mentioning cars .. did you ever buy a car kit and assembled the car yourself? And if the car does not run, do you call the manufacturer or the dealer? Well ... vendors being in the first row is normal, isn't it? At least in germany we bring our broken cars back to the shop.
Same for broken TV or a broken washing machine.

About quality control:
Of course you could do Quality Control for each part bought from a manufacturer in china, but skipping Q.C. simply pays off because it is cheaper to let the customer do the Q.C. and replace the wrong parts up to a certain percentage.
This is not something invented by SC, this is a result of people in general -except you- are not willing to pay the price.

Why am I dedicated? Because
1. I did not have massive problems with my steppi yet and
2. for me the overall steppi package is OK .. maybe not perfect, as in the beginning I also expected SC to read the forum, but acceptable for the price
3. I talked to SC guys on a fair and I am confident that they try to find fair solutions in case of a problem.
4. I learned a lot on this journey

And now I decide that I spend enough time for this kind of posts ... very unlikely that I can calm you down and change your mind ... very unlikely that you change mine.
Let's go on. ;o)